Lookfar,

I've been telling this lot for years, wind turbines is one of the ways to go, so is nuclear. All I got were insults from the peasants, but, as  the bible says, it will come to pass and then I shall laugh at them.

Are you a fellow scientist? Wind farms in France, which I have seen and there have no reports of massacred birds.

It is so obvious that we have a rabid greenie in our midst (Lookfart sic) who argues against everything logically and factually presented! Anyone that thinks wind turbines are "graceful gentle etc" needs a seeing eye dog to guide them!!! Even when the facts are presented, he goes into denial. So typical of a greenie hypocrite. And yes I love trees as well!

PlanB, that you can't hear those subsonic noises from your airconditioner means you will not hear those much softer noises from a Wind Turbine, so you are home free, only a small proportion of the human race can, and just as most of us can hear traffic noises, but very few are made sick, so a very small number can hear very deep sounds, - whether they are the same as a particular brand and size of wind turbine is impossible to know without a lot more money being spent on research, but if, and it is a tiny if, such a person has bought a property that later on adjoins a wind farm that is tested, and I mean properly tested, that causes that person unbearable distress, then that person should receive a price for their property, perhaps 10% more than they paid, and plus provable, beneficial to price, improvements, then they I believe should be paid that, not every shyster who wants to double the money they paid for their property by claiming medical blah, sure move away, don't lose, start again in low wind site, don't try to rip off people who are trying to save the world by replacing seriously destructive energy from burning coal with much kinder energy from using wind.

BTW PlanB, if your polluting, destructive, climate denier mates succeed in destroying our civilisation and most animal species though Gloabal Warming, - there  is  no  PlanB .

None.

There have been a lot more people had to move out of their homes because they did not realise that cows moo and poo, or fondly imagined that they could destroy other peoples farms because they, the new arrivals in that area believed everybody else should bow to their delusions.

However, there is a small percentage of the population who can hear the deeper noises said to be produced by some wind turbines, sometimes, they no doubt enjoy Double Bases and Doof parties more than the rest of us and some indeed might find some of those frequencies from say a particular wind turbine model/size distressing, - I mean we all can hear traffic noises and find them unpleasant or distressing, very few of us will move to avoid it, much less must move or die.

However, many people on the edge of big cities experience that situation, as Suburbia Envelops them with iron teeth, they either adapt or leave, no Govt. compensation is offered, although often land prices become much higher, so we don't hear much complaint.

For those with the deep noise ability, I agree it can also be a disability, but not automatically, only if really internally destructive symptoms persist and are thoroughly proved, not for the folks on the edge of a wind farm that think they can just double the value of their property and be compensated, - by the people who are trying to save the earth, which usually does not include those property doublers.

You, PlanB are not one of these, - you can't hear your air conditioner, air conditioners are a strong source of those sounds, - you have already said you can't hear yours. out of luck PlanB.

Also PlanB, if your "masters" the coal barons do succeed in destroying the Human Civilisation and most of the Animal kingdom, THERE IS NO PLAN B. 

There have been a lot more people had to move out of their homes because they did not realise that cows moo and poo, or fondly imagined that they could destroy other peoples farms because they, the new arrivals in that area believed everybody else should bow to their delusions.

However, there is a small percentage of the population who can hear the deeper noises said to be produced by some wind turbines, sometimes, they no doubt enjoy Double Bases and Doof parties more than the rest of us and some indeed might find some of those frequencies from say a particular wind turbine model/size distressing, - I mean we all can hear traffic noises and find them unpleasant or distressing, very few of us will move to avoid it, much less must move or die.

However, many people on the edge of big cities experience that situation, as Suburbia Envelops them with iron teeth, they either adapt or leave, no Govt. compensation is offered, although often land prices become much higher, so we don't hear much complaint.

For those with the deep noise ability, I agree it can also be a disability, but not automatically, only if really internally destructive symptoms persist and are thoroughly proved, not for the folks on the edge of a wind farm that think they can just double the value of their property and be compensated, - by the people who are trying to save the earth, which usually does not include those property doublers.

You, PlanB are not one of these, - you can't hear your air conditioner, air conditioners are a strong source of those sounds, - you have already said you can't hear yours. out of luck PlanB.

Also PlanB, if your friends the coal barons do succeed in destroying the Human Civilisation and most of the Animal kingdom, THERE IS NO PLAN B.

There have been a lot more people had to move out of their homes because they did not realise that cows moo and poo, or fondly imagined that they could destroy other peoples farms because they, the new arrivals in that area believed everybody else should bow to their delusions.

However, there is a small percentage of the population who can hear the deeper noises said to be produced by some wind turbines, sometimes, they no doubt enjoy Double Bases and Doof parties more than the rest of us and some indeed might find some of those frequencies from say a particular wind turbine model/size distressing, - I mean we all can hear traffic noises and find them unpleasant or distressing, very few of us will move to avoid it, much less must move or die.

However, many people on the edge of big cities experience that situation, as Suburbia Envelops them with iron teeth, they either adapt or leave, no Govt. compensation is offered, although often land prices become much higher, so we don't hear much complaint.

For those with the deep noise ability, I agree it can also be a disability, but not automatically, only if really internally destructive symptoms persist and are thoroughly proved, not for the folks on the edge of a wind farm that think they can just double the value of their property and be compensated, - by the people who are trying to save the earth, which usually does not include those property doublers.

You, PlanB are not one of these, - you can't hear your air conditioner, air conditioners are a strong source of those sounds, - you have already said you can't hear yours. out of luck PlanB.

Also PlanB, if your friends the coal barons do succeed in destroying the Human Civilisation and most of the Animal kingdom, THERE IS NO PLAN B.

Plan B, sorry for triple posting, my email showed it had not taken, so I tried again.

With respect to Adani, I am fiercely opposed to him, and all he stands for, - of course, like all coal barons, he is opposed to Wind Turbines also, because, with our current world economy, coal is being destroyed by wind, and to a slightly lesser degree, by solar, because they are cheaper, and getting cheaper, and it was a big mistake the coal industry made to not oppose wind power all those years ago, although they may have suppressed all sorts of Tesla and other cheap/free energy machines or ideas, Wind slipped under the radar, and by the time they realised that wind was a serious competitor there were about 100 companies making big wind turbines all over the world, - the genie was out of the bottle, and they have stooped to any low to try and discredit wind, they will say anything, anything at all, despite much research about bird kills, cats number 1, a wheelbarrow or two a year, clear windows and cars, in number two place, plastic bags, poisons, etc. no. 3, wind turbines about no. 10, they will say anything, so you have to decide whether a few hawks, the only ones who usually fly so high as to get hit by a modern 160 metre high wind turbine, (and who make their life  by killing and eating any smaller birds) are worth protecting the modern coal industry, with it's ultimate conclusion, - if most available coal is burned, the runaway global warming that will see almost all of us human's out, and almost all animal species also.

It is a question of balance, you and all of us have to decide, to lose a few hawks, but protect the majority of all species, including humans, or what do you think is on the other side of the balance?

Cheers, Geoff

I like the idea of offshore wind for Australia - out of sight.

Australia's first offshore wind farm, an $8 billion 2000 megawatt project, has secured financial backing from a major international green energy investment fund.

Offshore Energy has joined with Danish fund management group Copenhagen Infrastructure Partnership to develop the renewable energy project.

The offshore wind farm, dubbed the Star of the South, will be built 10 to 25 kilometres off the coast of Victoria’s Gippsland region, in the Bass Strait, and could provide one and a half times the energy of the now-closed Victorian Hazelwood coal-fired power station.

Offshore Energy managing director Andy Evans told Fairfax Media the partnership would transform the company and lift the viability of offshore wind for Australia.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/energy/australia-s-first-offshore-wind-farm-international-funding-20171205-p4yxfb.html

The world’s first floating wind farm has begun to produce power in Scotland. If the technology becomes cheaper, which developer Statoil says is only a matter of time, it will open up parts of the ocean previously considered too deep for stationary turbines.

Statoil developed software that twists the blades of the floating turbine in response to the motions of the wind, waves, and ocean currents. These blades, along with ballast at the base of the structure, keep the 175-meter tall, 10,000-metric ton turbines upright. The floating structures can operate in water as deep as 1,000 meters.

No problems so far and can’t see any reason for complaints since marine life will not suffer.

In a quite amazing synthesis of offshore Oil platforms and offshore wind farms, Offshore wind farms have come dowm amazingly in price, and because the wind is better, more reliable, and blows longer out at sea, and with the huge machines now being installed, is competitive with onshore wind farms, esp with the nimby attitude making it hard for onshore.

Statoil is an oil/coal company, has seen which way the wind is blowing :) and divesting as fast as it can from oil and coal and throwing all it's money at wind, really they see themselves as an Energy company, and seem to be favourable to storage also.

The floating wind turbine idea has been pooh poohed by the "experts"  for decades, but always seemed sensible,  and often both offshore and floating wind farms will have access to Tidal generation possibilities,  - basically wind turbines under water, just with shorter blades, (water being denser) which will often be generating well when no wind, as they depend on the tides, - predictable for thousands of years ahead.

When Wind and Tidal (and Solar) are generating, the pumped hydro dams are being filled up, rarely should there be no supply and gas generators can be called in then.

Coupled with the new reach Wind, and Solar-on-Trackers, plus Pumped Hydro for storage, the opportunities for selling the more expensive Coal fired, or even more expensive Nuclear powered electricity, are diminishing enormously, and companies closing down their coal fired etc. generators accordingly.

One could say that the whole fossil fuel etc industry was foolish, and also it is said that the fool who persists in his folly becomes wise, so now that wind, etc. is cheaper, the forces support them, so those who have become wise go for renewables.

Of course some are too dense to become wise, - God bless all who sail therein..

Plan B, with renewables, the question is not which is Best, they all have their pros and cons, Thermal has been a bit too expensive to really go ahead, particularly with storage, but it has it's place and Solar Thermal projects are still being built, - is particularly good for deserts, or low lying areas with no pumped hydro sites.

Many other sorts of renewables are also more pricey, but all are coming down as projects go ahead, and the thing is that the old concept of baseload, - which never really meant much, is now replaced with 'filling in the gaps when no wind nor solar'.

Of course that means there is over capacity, but that  is exactly what is needed to fill up the storage.

Cheers,

Geoff. 

Great news can we now stop paying taxpayers money to support if it is now economically viable ..

While you have got all this power Brocky, how about stopping all the much greater subsidies for Coal, the quicker we get rid of coal the better, why delay?

I can see why Turnbull has gone down this path, keeping the lights on is an urgent priority.

The government rejected a clean energy plan that would have forced electricity companies to source a percentage of their power from renewables. 

The Clean Energy Target (CET) would have forced power companies to provide a certain percentage of their energy from renewable, low emission sources such as wind and solar.

The alternative backed by Turnbull's conservative coalition will instead require energy providers to have a minimum amount of power from "dispatchable" sources such as coal, gas, batteries and hydro, while still reducing carbon emissions.

"This is a national energy guarantee that will ensure that we have affordable power; that it is reliable to keep the lights on.  And we can afford to keep them on and meet our international commitments," Turnbull said.