Thanks Koko and Dusty, I think there's been a big snow job done on this subject.

I have been resisting the urge to comment on Peter Sinclair, but I can't hold it back any more. Most of you are so acclimatised to not having any interest in anything that doesn't affect your purse, that you are not really interested in what happens to our latest martyr.

If Peter were to appear before the court of Solomon, he would have the wrath of God on his side.

In fact, he is a very wealthy farmer (in your eyes) & who really cares as to whether he lives or dies?

On that basis, why are you disappointed that Kevin Rudd is not interested in the outcome?

Either way, it wont cost him a single vote, so, why get involved?

If he dies, how many of you Kevin Rudd supporters will vote for Tony Abbott in the next "surprise" election?

You only have to look at the situation in the Murrey Darling, where our farmers are forced to pay a fortune for water that it is illegal for them to draw. BUT, who cares? The average Australian reporter would rather he starve to death, & then try to canonise him in a 100 years or so.

Definitely sells more papers.

Australia is a harsh country, Suicide rates among farmers are high mainly due to years of drought.

For years farmers bulldozed everything in sight so they had more land for agriculture and grazing.

The area where Peter lives is a good example of this, a lot of it has no native trees and the land has become useless.

Government reps have offered to help him with strategies to help his farming but he rejected them.

He wants a Royal commission which would cost taxpayers a small fortune.



The reason for the laws on tree clearing have nothing to do with Kevin Rudd or Tony Abbott, but I guess some have to put the blame with those they oppose.

The tree clearing laws were made to help the environment, to help our native fauna, many of which are endangered due to urbanisation and massive clearing.

A good example of this is in south east Queensland where koala numbers are sadly diminished.



I see that lately farmers are starting to see the benefits of retaining vegetation to prevent erosion and as well as keeping the land healthier (not having to use so much fertilizer) and doing their bit for our precious native animals.



Peter is not the first farmer to strike hard times and will not be the last, but sitting on a tower will not make his land healthier, but will only distress his family.

Peter and I took early retirement and a redundancy package and all our savings from slogging

(I worked 12 hours straight with 4 other blokes looking after emergencies on West Gate Bridge and all other Melbourne Freeways all day or all night (yes often stressed to the hilt) as even on my shifts I had 8 suicides on West Gate bridge.



We had inside advice from someone at the top of Vic Roads re farming but still inexperienced as we were, we ended up losing around 4 hundred thousand dollars............................of our hard earned with blood and sweat money having reared 5 kids and putting them through school and Uni.



Like my Peter we felt suicidal I can tell you! but did anyone help us? nah that's life. I do feel very sorry for Peter but he has to pick himself up and go on, as thousands of us have had to do, otherwise how many more will sit on top of a pole demanding the Government pay for their mistakes or want to take rules into their own hands and change them? And this after losing our home and all stock and General Store and all our clothes and furniture in a house fire in Noojee so yes we have walked in most other people's shoes. Thank God our 5 kids and our two Mums all got out safe but we had nothing when we woke next morning after spending the night at someone's home.



I know how my friend in Colac feels as her young grandson committed suicide this year. Terrible just terrible......

Farming is difficult business but so are many other things and many lose everything giving it a go.

We need to plant more trees not cut them down and surely Peter knew the laws.

If Peter is suffering depression why leave him there??? Get him down and feed him and get help for him re his health. Why leave someone who is not (especially after 38 days not eating), thinking clearly. He certainly does need help.



Life is not easy but actually retirement is not so difficult to accept. We are enjoying it.

Have a good day all

Phyl.

psst Aldi have great bargains today.......

Have you ever had a tree on your property you wanted to cut down but weren't allowed to, I have. Of course council permission was needed and a pimply-faced teenager arrived, he looked far too young to be a true surgeon but presumably had some qualifications, but the bottom line was 'no way'. that tree stays. We had to appeal to council 3 times before we got a second council person who quickly gave the okay because it was simply dangerous. But other neighbours have had a terribly hard time since then getting permission. I don't like being told I can't cut down a tree on my block if I want to, I planted the blasted thing 30 years ago. I think we are simply over-governed, too many rules by half.



As far as not cutting down trees, what a joke, having just driven 38,000 kms around the country, there is nothing else BUT trees, billions and billions of them, Australia must have more trees than any other country in the world. Hang in there Peter.

38,000 ks and billions of trees Toot? You have to be joking. How many trees did you see from Port Agusta to Kalgooli From Adelade to Ularoo in fact any where in the red centre.How about Noojee to Poweltown and around to Matlock in Gippsland?How about along the mighty Murrey River where the land is so salty from "De Foristation". You would be lucky to grow weeds in some places.All The top soil has been washed away,no trees to bind it. We are having a long drought and when you have an extended drought as any farmer knows you "de stock" and re stock when the rains come . Cutting down trees wont give you any more feed,just less fertile soil after the rains wash what little top soil there is away. Trees give off oxygen at night whithout oxygen we don't breath.In the early 1900s there were approx.1,650Billion people on the earth and billions of trees, today there are approx 6,707Billion people and a hell of a lot less trees.

I can remember when DDT was going to Save us from all the pests and it was so safe you could spray your children with it.I DON'T THINK. Asbestos was as Safe as houses.!!!

Only to the ones who made money from it.

Hi Zepot, I'm not very good with figures but I've just done a quick look at our land mass and have come up with the following figures. For all you clever people, you'll do it the calculation a lot quicker than I did but here goes.



Australia is made up on a 7,617,930 square kilometres of land



Converted to hectares = 761,791,000 hectares



Of which 149 million hectares are trees



Plus 440 million hectares are grasses



Add to two together and you get 589 million hectares of vegetation



Which leaves 172 million hectares with no vegetation at all.



And before you say anything about grasses not being as good as trees, they still produce oxygen.



So as far as I can see, Australia is in pretty good shape.

Well said toot and he probably barracks for Collingwood...............what a dope .............. :ohh:

Zapot & Phyl, nice to see someone posts intelligent posts here, much appreciated.

fwed ;-)

Thanks fwed. I just said it as it was for us! and what we went through and it will always carry over into our lives and changed us and our future, but it has happened to many many farmers and those who made decisions which went wrong in our lives.



I wonder why Clay is calling a new person a dope? for having his say?



Welcome to the forum Zapot and please do not be put off. Please do keep posting.



All the best

Phyl.

Toot did your source tell you just how much of the 440 million hectares of grasses is actually growing grass???? Any Beef or Sheep farmer will tell you it is not all that much.As any good or bad politition can tell you numbers can be made to add up to anything you like.



Clay I do not or ever have followed Collingwood so you are wrong there.

As far as the pronouncement that I am a dope, makes me think that you are a very judgmental person.Or in other words anyone who does not agree with you or your friends vews is an idiot.



Thank you for the kind welcome Phyl.



Your comments are greatly appreciated Fwed.

Hi Zapot, I appreciate your comments on trees and grasses, we need more people to participate in this debate, it gets us all thinking and we learn a lot along the way. Hope you'll stick around a while. ;-)

Thank you Toot for your reply It appears that we can agree to differ. I must admit that I thought that Clay went a bit far calling me a dope. But to accuse me of being a collingwood surpporter was way over the top.

I lived my childhood on the Edward River so I do l know a bit about the land.









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I must admit I adore trees, I planted so many on my 700 square suruban block that they lifted the driveway and clogged up my sewer, it was like a jungle, now I only have two but they're a good size. I spent my childhood on a sheep property outside Goulburn, poor old dad had tussock everywhere and eventually sold out to a huge corporation who eradicated it efficiently over time. I can remember in the drought when I was very young, dad and I would chop down trees, anything for the starving sheep to eat and I'll never forget him shearing around the sheep's flyblown tummies and seeing millions of maggots. Who in their right mind would be a farmer. Up the farmers of Oz I say and hang in there Peter.