Yes Suze, it would be interesting to know how many voted below the line.
Preference dealing is delivering a lot more unfair representation these days IMO. Mostly due to Glenn Druery apparently.
Preference deals pay off for microparties and wipe out Greens in Victoria's Upper House. The Transport Matters Party, run by hire car owner Rod Barton and running mostly Indian candidates, seems set to win the final seat in Eastern Metropolitan district from the Greens - despite winning only 0.6 per cent of the vote compared to the Greens’ 9.3 per cent.
The labyrinth deals organised by “preference whisperer” Glenn Druery have lifted the microparties to new heights, winning up to nine of the forty seats in the new council – even though their collective vote went down.
Agree Suze - first past the post wins the seat is how we started off with this
plus non compuslory voting.
This got tweaked to compulsory and how to vote cards for those who dont follow politics and so vote as "dad" did because they cant be bothered.
This suits those who make a career of being a politcian.
Keeps them in power and then added preferences which are another bad idea for majority but favour pollies ,and actually IMHO are fraudulent as they exchange these to get their own particular schemes through the Parliament. You scratch my back etc.
WE should go back to non-compulsory voting and first past the post no poreferences.
Get a better more in touch government as they woul dneed to listen to us 24/7/364.
Not just election campaign - and less ads just tell us what they plan in one letter to each household would do - dont you think ?
Non-compulsory voting still brings out those who want something promised by a party.
UK Brexit vote was prime example - huge turnout unexpected and some missed out as they stupidly had vote on a weekday. UK should learn from us! Saturday always better. School closed etc and most not working plus postal voting.
Yes Suze, I agree with your comments.
Voters have control over their preferences not political parties. If voters new how preferences worked maybe they wouldn't be so god damn lazy & fill out the ticket as they want even if it means ticking over a hundred boxes.
First past the post, 10 candidates in your electorate, mathamatically you could end up with a representative with only 11% of the vote. Wow, majority rules, not.
Proof possative,spin, fear and smear no longer work, we don't want to hear about how bad your opponant is, we want you to show us how good you are.
Big losses for the Lib/Nat Party federally if they don't change their strategy.
The Victorian Liberal Party, which campaigned on “Get Back In Control”, saw a spiralling decline in their vote, with safe seats falling to Labor or becoming marginal.
“Obviously Victorians are more scared of the Liberal Party than they are of Sudanese gangs.”
— A comment on Twitter.
The Sudanese gangs get a vote too I wouid imagine?
The highest proportion of pensioners, on the dole and on disability pension live in Victoria
Like SA, Victoria will become a basket case
Already $18billion in debt, by the time next elections come around, debt will be $50 billion
Prisoners serving less than a 5 year term vote in Victoria.
Melbourne Universities churning out lefties by the hundreds of thousands
Highest rate of marijuana use is in Victoria
I dont know why their relatives dont talk to their Doctor about getting them removed from the electoral roll? HA HA
Lothario, where is your proof of your comments, what a lot of crock. Highest rate of marijuana uses, what has that got to do with anything, and what about S.A where it is decriminalized, they have a Liberal Govt.???
On 20 September 2017, the Voluntary Assisted Dying Bill 2017 was introduced into the Legislative Assembly of the Victorian Parliament by the Andrews Labor Government. The bill is modelled on the recommendations of an expert panel chaired by former AMA president Professor Brian Owler. The proposed legislation was said by proponents to be the most conservative in the world and contain 68 safeguards including measures designed to protect vulnerable people from coercion and abuse, as well as a board to review each case. Labor and Coalition MPs were allowed a conscience vote on the Bill. The bill was debated in the lower house over three sitting days, passing the Assembly without amendment on 20 October 2017 after an emotional and tense debatewhich lasted more than 24 hours. The bill was passed by 47 votes to 37.[The Bill finally passed through parliament, with amendments made on 29 November 2017. In passing the bill, Victoria became the first state to legislate for voluntary assisted dying. The law, presuming it receives the formality of royal assent, will come into effect in mid-2019.
Contratiulations to all MPs involved in this monumental achievement.
Yes, Victoria is the most socially progressive state.
Voting should not be considered a right or optional, or an imposition.
It is a RESPONSIBILITY! It is your contribution to the society you live in and it is irresposible to have optional voting.
Talk of 'optional' voting is irresponsible, anti social and would lead to an inprepresentitive government dominated by special interests, and the greatest special interest is big money and big business.
Look at the absolute mess that the USA is in with it's 'optional' voting. No thanks to that!
Likewise, first past the post elections are akin to: "Well srecw, you. We out vote you 51% to 49% so you have absolutely no say and no representation and we can do what ever we like at your expense" That is how dictatorships work.
Extensive preferential voting actually gets a candidate elected who can represent far more people. Of course, those who lose dont like this and winge about it, but it is the fairest sytem. Exercise your option to vote below the line and put the candidates you dont want to see elected last. Don't be a lazy, mindless puppet and vote above the line. It's only a few minutes of your life at most. probably less time than you spend whinging about how so and so 'micro' party got a candidate elected (to actually represent a viewpoint held by others)
Our elective system is often help up as an excellent and progressive example to the rest of the world. Be proud of it.
Its a mess. Too open to corruption where politicians are making deals with your vote. There are far too many people who dont have a clue about why they are voting. There are already many people who dont register to vote. Victoria has 40,000 homeless and yet only 2,000 registered to vote? If Bill Shorten had his way we would have compulsory voting for 16 year olds which fits Labor's cradle to grave grooming program with Unions grooming toddlers at kindy. Only Kiwis who arrived here before 1984 can vote. Its an absolute mess.
We need to make voting non compulsory and we need to encourage politicians to tell us why we should vote. Either for them or against them, or for another candidate.
I haven't heard such a garbled comment in ages!
Voting should be compulsory. It's the duty of every citizen to vote.
Personally..at this time in history..I am glad the LNP is getting a beating. Perhaps they will learn from this.
Perhaps they will now buckle down and deliver instead of just having a party in Parliament..
I agree Playboy. Here in Australia, we don’t always appreciate that in many parts of the works people have died for the right to vote.
I found it interesting that the 'polls' were so wrong. Same thing happened when Turnbull only just scraped in.
So who is conducting these polls and why did both predict LNP victories with the results so different?
Media is owned by millionaires such as Rupert Murdoch,
Mick I thought most polls predicted a Labor victory, with a few suggesting it wasn’t out of the question that the LNP could win, when you look at some of the things that happened in Victoria especially with the roads catastrophe, you would have thought the Libs had a chance, it just goes to show how much they are the nose, Andrews took good advantage of a poor opposition, well done to him, not sure how good it’s going to be for Victoria, time will tell.
Wrong again MICK but your bosses will be proud of the way you are prepared to spread untruths. All polls predicted a Labor win in Victoria.
What...arguing with the facts again are we OM? Polls were predicting a narrow win and TV propaganda was predicting the LNP was slightly in front. No poll I heard of predicted a landslide, which is precisely what occurred.
As I also said the Turnbull campaign went about how easily Turnbull was going to win. As we all recall election night saw Turnbull in front of the microphone attacking voters because they did not do what he had told them to.
You may want to live in denial but the above are the facts.
I have no boss to answer to OM. I do not accept payment like the trolls who are paid for what is called 'Services to the Liberal Party'. I'm just one p*ssed off inividual who can see our country is being milked and destroyed by those who have their OWN interests to pursue. That is where we differ.
sorry Mick, if I knew you were in doubt of the election outcome I would have let you know. This election was the easiest to call in my memory since the end of Whitlam. Andrews was always going to win in a canter after Guy chose to run such a brain fart campaign on his track record ... the lose-lose option. But to be fair to the pollsters they can only be as accurate as the responses they are given, the math stacks up even if people lie or change their minds. Labor won't have Guy and Kroger next time around so let's hope Andrews makes good use of his mandate and keeps the muppets on his side in check.
Thanks MICK, your rebuttal is in fact an admission that you told little porkies. "Polls were predicting a narrow win and TV propaganda was predicting the LNP was slightly in front." was what you just said confirming that no polls predicted a Liberal/National win. You see MICK, when one lie is told, it casts a doubt on anything else that is said.
"Little porkies"? "One lie told"?
OM - you are the master of twisting words and then trying to manipulate conclusions which are laughable. Welcome to the Liberal Party. They must give you guys an injection of vile serum when you arrive.
Readers will see your posts for the deceit they are.
Sounds like you're feeling a little cocky MICK. That's just plain arrogance. Every poll and analysis gave no chance to the LNP with many predicting an 8 seat loss.
You see, MICK, this is where our difference is; you stretch the truth or just flat out lie, I point out where that has occurred by, in some cases, using your own words which have condemned you and then you wrongly accuse me of twisting your words. It's not a matter of manipulating conclusions; it's merely quoting your own words exactly as you have presented them.
"Flat out lie"? This is what you and the right wing trolls trot here on a daily basis. You have a real hide looking for imperfections whilst running the propaganda.
I'll stay with what I said: the polls NEVER stated Labor would decimate you party and the right wing TV media routinely claimed it was close and that Andrews was in danger of losing. Manipulate the facts as you will. That is what Liberal Party stoolies do all the time and lying is a way of life to them. You too.
When you are in a hole, MICK, stop digging. Read your post which says, inter alia, "So who is conducting these polls and why did both predict LNP victories". Now you want to claim that you said; "the polls NEVER stated Labor would decimate you party. Your story changes like the wind MICK so one of those statements must be a lie. Which one is it?
You have nowhere to hide OM and echoing the party will get you nowhere. I find it interesting that you are now use the same rhetoric I accuse your party of. This is the ploy in th eparliament as well. Remember: Class warfare? And the rest.
You can run but you can't hide, twist the words as you will. The word LIE is what the LNP is all about. Lies from day 1 (Abbott). More under Turnbull and now you are up to the next PM. Give us all a break. You will be out of work after the election OM.
The only poll that matters is the one where people vote on election day. It is the likes of people like Allan Jones broadcaster and Rupert Murdoch who ousted Malcom Turnbull. Media has the greates influence, Voters are itred of changing leaders and voted for a stable party in Lanour who by all accounts seem to be doing go good job, In SA the pposite handed because voters had had enough of Labour. They have destroyed the hospital system.People vote according to what is happening or not happening in the lelecorate.
The LNP is getting exactly what they deserve, a good wholloping, the same is going to happen Federally, not sure about NSW, the disaster in all of this, is who is going to replace them, Shorten is more sure of his ground now, and he thinks he has a green light to continue his attack on pensioners, in particular the SFR, this won’t affect myself but I do have some sympathy for those who have provided for themselves and will now possibly be worse off, some rearranging of finances might be in order, Victoria’s Labor party didn’t have to do much to not only retain power but increase their majority, mind it was pleasing to see the greens slowly but surely disappearing, Federally if Labor can keep a steady rein on Shorten I think we will see the biggest turn around in recent times, hopefully the disaster than many are forecasting under Labor won’t materialise, I will still be investing in a lottery ticket each week just in case!
All it shows is a stuffed electoral system.
Another useless statement with no content.
OG - What is shows is that even with intense manipulation and propaganda sometimes you cannot convince people to do exactly what is bad for them. Unusual but good when it happens.
The system is far from stuffed but could be improved if the above the line included all parties and independents and each box numbered in order of preference. This would reduce chances for gaming the system.
Just a small point, maybe too pedantic, but there is a LNP in Queensland and all other states and territories have a separate Liberal Party and a National Party.
The Liberal Party, since Howard, has moved away from its centre right position and has not been able to decide exactly where it stands. Howard was a strong force and kept the coalition all moving in the same direction which current leadership has been unable to achieve. Abbott was too far to the right and Turnbull was too far to the left whilst Morrison seems to want to put anything slightly contentious to a committee. What the coalition is desperately lacking is leadership and Morrison is not the answer. Turnbull won't accept that he has been the major problem for the Liberals, firstly knifing Nelson and then knifing Abbott and, when the same thing was done to him, started sniping from the sidelines. I believe that Labor should thank Graham Richardson for his role in the Turnbull disaster because he was the one who told Turnbull if he wanted to join Labor that he would have to start at the bottom.
Reading the opinions of others about what is wrong with the coalition, and which seems to make some sense, is that all of the personal sniping and tinkering around the edges has to stop. What is needed is three things; firstly, deal with immigration by lowering it to a figure below 100,000 and stop dithering, secondly, build coal fired power stations to deal with what is the real problem with power prices which is a lack of supply and thirdly, get out of the Paris agreement which does nothing for Australia, especially as the money being paid over has to be borrowed.
With a short time left to an election, Morrison doesn't appear to have the ability to do any of those things, certainly not in the few months remaining, and Labor will win the next election barring some unforeseen disaster. Much is made of Shorten's popularity but that is totally irrelevant except to the voters of Maribyrnong. I don't know which polling group came up with this little gem but all it does is add an extra poll for someone to be paid.
WRONG OM. What is wrong with the coalition apart from the naty demeanour of some of their top people is that the LNP has sold out the country. First to the coal industry and then to rich citizens. Everything else is simply icing.
It is no surprise that the Liberal Party is falling apart.
Right on cue and right on your masters' topic MICK. Again, smear and innuendo with no substance. No facts and a bit of personal characterisation, same old bully boy union tactics.
OM, and how exactly do you propose the government finance and build your coal fired power stations? Lucky there are others to protect you from yourself.
OM - you crack me up. "Smear"? That is what the LNP lives and feeds on. Emma Hussar? Luke Foley? Happens again and again.
You have a real hide talking about smear when you are working for the kings of smear!
Old Man, I agree with your post 100%. That is a very accurate analysis.
Looks like the LNP tag team is reassembling after they were on the booths in Victoria. I suspect the rest of the team will show up shortly to run the propaganda. You know how it goes: Labor bad Liberal can do not wrong? And if a question is unanswerable change the subject by making some brain dead comment.
OM- stop with the building of new coal, it is far too polluting, and a health hazard. Get with the times. Victorians voted for renewable energy for good reasons.
One pont all respondents need to acknowledge, voting is not compulsory. Attendance at a polling place and having your name marked off the roll is compulsory, what you do to your voting paper in the 'privacy' of a voting booth is your own affair. From what I have heard from people who count the votes some people are very explicit in their comments. How did I vote, that is my business, but I am pleased neither major party achieved control of the upper house.
I never understood this business of parties and preferences. I thought it was up to the voter how they allocated their preference.
Is it that Aussies are too stupid or can't be bothered to vote and assign preferences themselves?
It shouldn't be a big deal about which party prefers which party. It surely should be up to the voter!. Maybe how to vote papers handed out should not be allowed to show preferences only the candidate involved for that party. That may make voters do a bit of thinking for themselves.
The voting system in Victoria is rigged. It allows corruption by use of those votes above the line.
Ha ha ha ha. You crack me up Adrianus. When the LNP cannot control the system it is corrupt. When it can Labor cannot accept the system.
The only time your party will be happy is when it can control all the media, including the ABC and SBS, when it can redistribute the electoral boundaries to give it the best chance of winning and when it can silence all dissent.
What position will you have in the dictatorship Herr Adrianus? I imagine you will want the Joseph Goebbels award for excellence.
AHH , democracy, two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner!
The Victorian election was a no-brainer. - Simply more progress or more jails.
Yes and it costs a lot more money to keep people in jails.
Greens lost 4 out of their 5 seats... they may have to think about how to allocate their preferences in the next election.
In my opinion all elections should be first past the post .... instead of the deals done behind the curtains.