Setting the Prime Minister straight on hazard reduction

The Climate Council has released a new publication on hazard reduction to combat misinformation - some of it coming from the Prime Minister - about what is driving Australia’s catastrophic bushfires. 

“Hotter temperatures and drier conditions, driven by climate change, are the root cause of these fires. It is a dangerous distraction to suggest otherwise,” said former Fire & Rescue NSW Commissioner Greg Mullins.

The Prime Minister Scott Morrison has suggested that hazard reduction is as important as emissions reduction.

“Mr Morrison needs to listen to the experts. Focusing on hazard reduction rather than emissions is another diversion so the Coalition can drag its heels on what’s really needed: effective climate policy,” said the Climate Council’s chief executive Amanda McKenzie.   

Mr Mullins called for attention to be paid to the real reason causing the terrible bushfire tragedy around the country.

“We need to be clear. Hazard reduction is an important tool but it’s not enough to protect us from catastrophic bushfires driven by extreme weather. We need to take action on the root cause, worsening climate change,” said Mr Mullins.

“The conditions this year have been so bad that I’ve seen flames a metre high over mown grass. I’ve seen fires go through areas of leaf litter that had already been burnt just weeks before, and fires burning intensely in areas that had been burnt just a year ago,” he said.

“This year’s bushfire season, is by far the worst on record for NSW and Queensland. To argue that these unprecedented fires have been caused by a lack of hazard reduction is simplistic and just wrong,” he said.

The new Climate Council publication explains how the window of opportunity for conducting safe burns has become much shorter as a direct result of climate change.

“The fire season in NSW now starts in winter and runs until autumn. We no longer have the same window to safely carry out hazard reduction burns,” said Mr Mullins. 

“Even though prescribed burning is becoming more difficult to do safely, the rate of burning in NSW has increased. Despite this we have still seen catastrophic fires, and this is because these fires were a weather-driven event, not fuel-driven,” he said.

The Climate Council has previously published 12 peer-reviewed reports on bushfires and climate change written by world leading authorities.

Should the Prime Minister provide evidence to support his claim that hazard reduction is as important as emissions reduction as a cause for the bushfires?

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Hazard reduction is the important one -- and we would be able to cut emissions IF we planted MORE trees -- all over the planet as they are the lungs of the earth

ll thoise houses that got nurnt had big trees all around them. They need to get rid of them as you are asking for trouble if you build your house in the forest. 

The simple answer to cutting emissions is to stop or slow down drastically what is causing them - burning fossil fuels. Simple , the science has been telling us that for years, but lets avoid the real issue and go on  about hazard reduction , which the experts ie read the article above tell us that is not the answer all you climate change deniers beleive is. Next i suppose out will trot the excuse that its the greens fault! As they say read the science. If you can understand it

I love the idea that if Australia goes zero emmissions that we would have this bubble of perfectness over Australia and we wouldn't have any more bushfires. 

I love the idea that if Australia goes zero emmissions that we would have this bubble of perfectness over Australia and we wouldn't have any more bushfires. 

All houses that got burnt had big trees around them, I call BS on that, ROLF will be very dissapointed .

Bear -- half the problem is the cutting down of the trees -- tree are the lungs of the earth -- half the Amazon and many rain forests are being denuded -- that's half of the problem-- 

THE WORLD NEEDS TO PLANT MORE TREES

The more Sooty McShouty opens his fat, arrogant mouth to market his latest spiel, the more he shows up his STUPIDITY! He began with "Sydney has always had bushfires". Sydney wasn't even burning at the time (apart from a 1 acre burn that was quickly put out) but the North Coast NSW was experiencing unprecedented bushfires at that time. He followed up with "Volunteer fire fighters want to be there". Meanwhile he took himself off on a holiday to Hawaii. Upon returning he said he went because he "didn't want to let his family down". Bugger the rest of us who were scared witless with what was going on. Bugger the homes burning down, people and animals dying, fire fighters risking lives. Then with Murdoch's help there was the spiel about the fires being caused by The Greens, then arsonists were to blame and so on. Now he is trying to convince us that more burn-offs will fix the problem which reads like "the RFS is responsible for these unprecedented fires". He must think that we out here in la la land are more stupid than him? Does the man not hear and understand when told over and over again for months now that burn-offs aren't safe when the bush is bone dry and that the period to conduct safe burns is narrowing to just a few short winter months? Even then, burn-offs aren't safe if our winters remain dry as it did last year, and especially in peat forests which will burn for months without decent rain.

Yes 'Sooty from marketing' is STUPID. But worse, he is a pretender, a liar, a hoodwinker and a coward. Nursing his lump of coal he will do anything to avoid the truth about climate change and the urgent need for emissions reduction because he really sides with the denialists in the LNP coalition and he wants to safeguard his power as PM. As a leader he has let us all down. 

Sooty McShouty from marketing is a total FAILURE!!!

Yes, Ny19,  he chose all the wrong words when he came back from his holiday -- said   'if he has the hindsight -- he should have said the FORESIGHT -- he is a real salesman and BS artist and is an ignorant arrogant piece of utter scum!

Also, the way he forced [eople to shack his hand -- I would have liked him to try and shake my darn hand -- he would have had a shock!

He is protecting many of his dishonest and crooked people in his party -- and he and those need to GO

 

Would like to see him try to shake my hand too PlanB. He would cop a mouthful from me! Those attempts really showed up the full extent of his dumbness.

 

Scomo is doing an awesome job however the media is doing a dreadful job with all the negativity. How about something positive instead. Like over 90% of homrs were saved instead of the number lost. 

well said n NY19

VCBB is trolling as usual for his beloved LIARberal Party and its bumbling leader Scummo.

I love the idea from Greens and Labor that if Australia goes zero emmissions that we would have this bubble of perfectness over Australia and we wouldn't have any more bushfires. 

I love the idea from Greens and Labor that if Australia goes zero emmissions that we would have this bubble of perfectness over Australia and we wouldn't have any more bushfires. 

VCBB, 10% represents a decimation, it is considered a great failure in anyones book.

Failure of this magnitude does not deserve to be rewarded..  SOOTY and his followers need to be held to account.

Spin will not rebuild houses or prevent fire devastation.

If Morrison really cares about fire risk he would push parliament to buy our own large water dumping planes. Why hasn't he thought of that? Easier I guess to just make the RFS responsible for all future risk reduction on limited funds and resources.

Unfortunately bush fires begin way before they even start. You need to be prepared for them with fire breaks and hazard reduction not she'll be right mate attitude. If you want you house burnt down then build it among the trees. 

China accounts for 30% of the world's CO2 emissions, USA 15%, EU about 10% India about 8%, Russia about 5% , Japan around 4% Iran and Saudi Arabia both around 2%.

If China, USA etc do not move substantially on emissions, and they are most definitely NOT, regardless of the rhetoric, NOTHING Australia can do, with its 1% of global emissions, can alter the climate.  Noone will listen to a pidley little country on this, certainly not China, USA, India, Russia, Japan.  The EU seems to be able to be lead around by the nose by a small girl.

THEREFORE, Australia must not destroy its economy, if indeed we have not already, by abandonning cheap energy and forergoing what makes an industrialised advanced civilisation.

What we must do is ADAPT to our circumstances - reduce hazard, harden our electricity systems by ensuring concrete poles are used for all exposed replacements, increase and properly maintain firebreals and roadside clearing and carry out far more hazard reduction by various means.  If a government cannot maintain the forests it has locked up, it should divest them to parties who can use them productively and maintain them in a safe manner.  If Governmant cannot do it, it should get out of the way.

Given the world wide attention to our dreadful bushfires if we, who are suffering, don't take positive action on climate change then why should anyone else bother. We will be the ones carrying the cost, as we are now.

Yes proper preparation prior to building is very important. I used to live in a bushfire prone area and our house was cleared all round with the grass cut short all the time. However there were houses damaged and destroyed whose areas were devoid of undergroth around them this year.

There are quite a lot of steps that should be taken but as a former user of firewood I can assure you dry wood ingnites much more easliy than wood that is carrying any moisture and it also burns much more fiercely putting out much greater heat. Obvious conclusion is that the drier the weather the drier the forests therefore the worse the bushfires. 

The fires this year have been so intense that they have, at times, created genuine "firestorms" where the column of hot air generated by the fires is so hot it rises at such a speed into the atmoshere it draws fresh air into the fire creating a situation a bit like a backsmights forge when air is pumped into the fire creating a tremendously hot fire. A simplistic explanation. Such fires are impossible to fight and can spread at great speed with such heat that trees ingnite before the flames of the fire itself reach them. 

Climate deniers need to stop defending their favoured political party and get real. This is here to stay and we need to learn to live with it and stop making it worse. If we don't do anything in Australia then we are being troglodytes. 

Given the world wide attention to our dreadful bushfires if we, who are suffering, don't take positive action on climate change then why should anyone else bother. We will be the ones carrying the cost, as we are now.

Yes proper preparation prior to building is very important. I used to live in a bushfire prone area and our house was cleared all round with the grass cut short all the time. However there were houses damaged and destroyed whose areas were devoid of undergroth around them this year.

There are quite a lot of steps that should be taken but as a former user of firewood I can assure you dry wood ingnites much more easliy than wood that is carrying any moisture and it also burns much more fiercely putting out much greater heat. Obvious conclusion is that the drier the weather the drier the forests therefore the worse the bushfires. 

The fires this year have been so intense that they have, at times, created genuine "firestorms" where the column of hot air generated by the fires is so hot it rises at such a speed into the atmoshere it draws fresh air into the fire creating a situation a bit like a backsmights forge when air is pumped into the fire creating a tremendously hot fire. A simplistic explanation. Such fires are impossible to fight and can spread at great speed with such heat that trees ingnite before the flames of the fire itself reach them. 

Climate deniers need to stop defending their favoured political party and get real. This is here to stay and we need to learn to live with it and stop making it worse. If we don't do anything in Australia then we are being troglodytes. 

 

 Winky TongueThe ShovelGreens’ Opposition To Controlled Storms To Blame For Canberra Hailstorm, Government Claims

The Greens’ opposition to controlled storms in national parks is to blame for the huge hailstorm in Canberra yesterday, the Government says.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said that the hailstorm – which caused major damage to property – was inevitable, thanks to Greens policy.

“If you refuse to implement controlled hailstorms in the off season, as the Greens have done, then you get to a situation where there is this huge build-up of ice that has no-where else to go. What we saw yesterday was the result of years of negligence from the Greens,” he said.

Environment Minister Susan Ley backed the PM’s stance. “This has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with ice-loads,” she said.

“Locals in the Canberra region have been crying out for controlled storming for years, but they’ve been ignored. We’ve always had hail in Canberra, but by inducing the hail in a controlled manner, we’ve traditionally been able to minimise its impact. Not anymore”.

The Australian newspaper blamed arsonists.

LOL :))))

Most fires are lit by arsonists. 

We can not trust this fool with managing our future in any way, he can't even keep his own Ministers from getting caught committing acts of corruption.  In fact, he doesn't even know how to recognize it.

If you can't even tell right from wrong, how can you make the right decision when needed?

As a Christian and a Leader this man has failed dismally.

Ha ha. stop believing the opposition and all it's ranting. UNfortunately it stil doesn't belive it lost the election. 

I believe what I have seen, not what people say, are you saying that the latest batch of corrupt and arrogant behaviour was made up by the media and opposition.  If so why is SOOTY defending it rather than denying it.

You seem confused, what does your best mate ROLF have to say?

VCBB you are an idiot

here is the root cause and all that results from that - plus the climate knows no country borders  https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth  

I believe most western countries have had lower birth rates than death rates   It is a stated aim by militant islamists that if they cannot overcome thru terrorism, force etc then they will overcome by having large families  

also

https://www.statista.com/statistics/264687/countries-with-the-highest-population-growth-rate/

Australia's Chief Scientist, Dr Alan Finkel has stated that the current drought has not been caused by climate change. The IPCC has declared that the bushfires in Australia have not been caused by climate change. The Climate Council has offered no proof to their assertions but it's fair to say that they have a vested interest in promoting climate change. Please note that Mullins title is "former", not current and his request to speak to the PM is grandstanding as it is state governments that control fire fighting, not the federal government. He should have asked for an audience with state premiers.

There are many emotive words connected with the current bushfires that are incorrect. To say that the fires are "unprecedented" is wrong. There was a larger area under fires in 1974 with 117M hectares burnt. The Kinglake fire of 2009 caused 173 deaths and destroyed over 3000 buildings. There was a Royal Commission after the Kinglake fires which, as a part of its report, recommended that hazard reduction be increased to lessen the ferocity of bushfires in Victoria. This recommendation has largely been ignored.

On the subject of hazard reduction, Bob Carr locked up the National Parks in NSW, allowed the destruction of fire trails and passed legislation making hazard reduction very difficult to implement. Last year NSW NPWS carried out hazard reductions on 135000 hectares. NPWS is responsible for 7,000,000 hectares of National Parks so on their own figures it will take over 51 years to hazard reduce their Parks and that is without going back on any cleared areas. State and Local Governments are withholding approvals for landowners to clear their own properties and this must change.

To the question "Should the Prime Minister provide evidence to support his claim that hazard reduction is as important as emissions reduction as a cause for the bushfires?" I say no, various Royal Commissions over the many catastrophic fires that have occurred have all, without exception, recommended that hazard reduction be increased.

Please quote the source/date of your statement .. "Dr Alan Finkel has stated that the current drought has not been caused by climate change"

Thank you Horace - it is nice to read a post from someone who has the same knowledge as most of us!

Where I am we are rural and every fire we have had has come out of a National Park - right now we are the only ones to do a hazard reduction burn in our area!  We had our local RFS come out and conduct that burn because neither my husband or I are physically able to do it ourselves anymore.

We are sitting in between properties that haven't done any work for 15 years - although we have very little ground fuel we will get crowning or canopy fire as a result of the intensity of our neighbours going up in smoke - we are also the only property to have a dedicated fire hose ( 40 metres) connected to our bore and run by a generator in case we lose power in the fires!

I can and have protected our home and buildings on my own using this hose - RFS have come in and seen me at work and said we wish there were more like you.

We do not have any native vegetation closer than 25 metres and we also removed any gums over 25 metres high - we are about to remove more soon as they have grown too high and are very prone to falling over when you least expect it!

In our recent burn in September last year we had approx 20 trees fall over after the fire - they are dangerous and should never be left where they can kill you or destroy buildings.  We have massive garden beds full of plantings that are relatively fire resistant all around our house approx 12-15 metres out - with concrete paths around all buildings and nothing growing against buildings.

It is very easy for me to stand at one corner between the gardens and buildings and play high pressure water over everything and haven't lost a thing yet!

 

 

A good, concise and balanced summary, Horace. Mullins appears to be an attention seeker - for him to suggest the climate is responsible for fires is ridiculous, as he should know there is ignition required to create fires, and if the temperature goes up say by 1.5 degrees that doesn't cause fires, and in fact we usually have temperatures going up by 20 degrees or more from Winter to Summer. To downplay hazard reduction, and to not even mention the major cause of ignition is activity by humans (hence large number of fires), is downright moronic, and this guy needs to be removed from serious discussions. Good on Morrison for not allowing him to grandstand.

However, while States are responsible, and have failed miserably in their preparation & responses (including hazard reduction, catching & stopping arson, and having an adequate Fleet of Aerial Large Water Bombers knocking out fires when they start), Morrison is also to blame for rejecting (with Turnbull) in 2017 the request for a Fleet of Large Aerial Water Bombers which could be shared nationally.

Also, regarding a comment from Bridgit about proximity of trees - I recall the recommendation from another ex-RFS Commisioner in NSW, Phil Koperberg, that there needs to be a 100m buffer between the bush and all homes - meaning all bush within that distance from existing homes should be cleared, and no more houses should be allowed within 100m of the bush in future. Moronic NSW Govts did not act on that recommendation as well.

 

The "expert" had spent time in two rooms. First one was 40 degrees and the second 41. He was then asked which was the hotter room. The second, way hotter. I started panicking in this room and was thinking if I could just get back to the first room and cool down. Look, on average the second room will be one hundredth of a degree hotter next year... we're doomed.

Very well said Horace Cope and VCBB. 

If a specialist doctor tells you that you need a heart transplant and if scomo tells you he does not know what hes talking about im sure there are people out there who would believe scomo. Our coral reefs are dying sea levels are rising temperatures are rising its scientific fact its not propoganda no amount of back burning will fix these problems reducing fossil fuels is the only thing that will slow it down. Remember one thing scientists are for the planet these politicians look after the billionairs who are raping the planet for profit 1% of the richest people in Australia own more than 50% of Australians these are the people who Scott Morrison and the liberel party have sold their souls too the people can stop it if they dont listen to a politician who cant even run a country yet he claims to be an expert on climate change wake up Australians.  

The problem with your 'observation' ollie, is that Mr Kean (Environmental Minister in NSW) to whom Mr Morrison directed the 'he doesn't know what he is talking about' comment at, is actually NOT an expert on the environment at all. Mr Keen has not even been in that role as Minister for the Environment a year yet (he was appointed in April 2019). Mr Kean is an accountant by training and profession and the only ministerial position he had held prior to the current one was as Minister for Innovation and Better Regulation (this covered such things as consumer protection, workplace safety, and innovation).

And please note, Mr Kean is a NSW politician not a Federal one and has absolutely no input to or in fact any idea what is discussed at cabinet meetings in Canberra to which was what Mr Morrison was refering when he made the comment.

Mr Kean barely understands what is happening in NSW never mind in relation climate change on a global scale!

 

The problem with your observation KSS is I could not give a rats tossle about Mr Keane he is only another minister who would not know crap from clay or maybe he is taking notice of what the experts are saying you know the ones that have been warning us for years the only people with the experience the ones that study science

 

Waffling on about CO2 is foolishness. Even if the theory were true, what we in Oz do is not going to help the world eliminate bushfire. Whereas, practical actions such as hazardous fuel reduction will help mitigate fires.

Oz is the land of droughts, fires and floods. This is a fact to be managed in practical ways rather than by worship of false climate gods.

Vote against local government that supports iclei.org would a good step. 

 

I am stunned, (actually not) at the level of ignorance, misinformation, poorly understood quasi-science and simple lack of research that is presented in this argument (ie the responses from the above people about the initial opinion piece).  I like the fact that we are having the discussion, but really alarmed that people might actually believe some of the statements they make.

It is great to have an opinion but please do the homework before you sprout off stuff that is so clearly wrong.

As a retired consultant in this field, I am a) disgusted at the politicians' (all sides) responses or non-responses to the evidence that is available. Evidence, not opinion. I understand much of what is happening, in reasonable detail, and it alarms me. 

I have children and grandchildren. I beg my children not to have more grandchildren - it is not going to be a great time for them.

I DON'T believe in miracles.

 

Please provide the evidence that any climate change is caused by human activity and that it is not part of the evolutionary cycle that has been in progress for millions of years and that previously resulted in ice ages, thaws, heating, cooling and so on in repeated cycles.

As you claim to be an expert who 'understands what is happening' and who has sought to interfere in your children and grand-children's lives, this should not be too much of a stretch for you.

I really do feel sorry for your grandchildren. Why mislead them with unsubstantiated catastrophy theories?

You have failed to gain credibility with your claim to be a "retired consultant".  I too am a retired global consultant but not in "this" field.  I am, however, blessed with well balanced common sense.

 

Well, Janus, as a retired consultant in "this field", you would be well aware that CO
2
is merely a trace element in the atmosphere and makes up 0.041332% of the atmosphere. You would also be aware that man contributes only one molecule of CO
2
in around every 90,000 air molecules or about 3%. You would also be aware that Australia produces about 1% of that or one molecule of CO
2
in around every 9,000,000 air molecules. And by the way, CO
2
is a harmless, trace gas. It is as necessary for life - just as oxygen and nitrogen are. It is a natural gas that is clear, tasteless and odourless. It is in no way a pollutant. So what is it that you want us to do to deal with climate change?

 

What I heard from the PM was that emissions reduction would continue but we have to get stuck into the fuel load.  There are just as many people agree that the fuel load is #1.  It takes oxygen, a source, and fuel to make a fire.  If we subtract one of those, there's no fire.  We can't get rid of oxygen.  We can't catch arsonists before they strike, or change the weather overnight. If emissions are affecting the climate, well, not much is going to change until countries like China and India sort themselves out. We can, however, clear the fuel. I grew up in a bushfire prone area.  Not much of a problem while we had logging in the area, but got very much worse when the logging ceased because maintenance slipped and fuel loads didn't get cleared as often.  The forests must be maintained properly.

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