HOSPITALS TAKEOVER ???

What do you all think about this hospitals takeover? I am the first to admit that our hospitals are in melt down and I can't see a takeover by the government (any government) improving that. situation. I want to know what we are going to get for our money. I want to know HOW they are going to achieve their promises. We have a right to know, after all it is our money they are playing with and the future health of this country.

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This whole farce is yet another GREAT example to support abolition of State government in Australia.



I agree we are over governed but think its the local government full of wannabes that should be abolished. If the State governments were to go the eastern states would run over the likes of SA etc.



SA has a part-time government because our slimy premier is only allowing Parliament to sit about 32 days this year, and that doesn't start till May -- think how much they could accomplish if they stopped bludging.

At least while they are bludging, they are not making mistakes. I think we would be better off to pay them to do nothing.

Well said kfc - what bothers me is that the current government haven't had one project that has been successful, and messing with hospitals could be an absolute disaster. I also have concerns about a referendum. Will this become the norm every time the Federal Government don't get their way? Whether we like the result or not, we vote people in to represent us. Referendums which are called willy nilly by a dictatorial government, is showing contempt for OUR representatives. We have an election coming up in the not too distant future, why not wait and go to the people then instead of spending even more money on a referendum?

We vote as we see fit, based upon current situations at the time. If major changes are to take place with the newly elected Government, then we should be advised beforehand. They are our servants and do not have the right to 'change the goalposts' to suit themselves in the middle of the game. Now we have State Governments who will not unanimously agree with the changes to the hospital system. Unless thay all agree, without Rudd's sweeteners, then it should be discussed further to find a solution, with the approval of all concerned.

With our current system, when a party is elected, they claim a "mandate to govern", i.e., they say that because we elected them we have agreed to their policies (present and future). They feel that they can do ANYTHING, sell assets, legislate new laws, regulate our lives etc because we elected them to govern.

Personally, I refute this assumption and would like to see far more use of the Referendum system. Governments should be more accountable to the people they represent and I cant see why we should not have PAGES of referendum questions at each election in order to give instructions from the majority to the government of the day. Naturally it will never happen as politicians will never surrender one iota of power or discretion.

Gizmo, every word you say is correct, but philosophically wrong.

Elections are based on personal belief & loyalty, not on intellect.

Plato is accepted as being the founder of the 2nd most important

principle of Democracy; one person, one vote. Every person in the

developed World believes this, BUT it is a lie !!! Under Plato, the

well born, the land owners & the business people were all informed

about politics & had a vote. The lower classes of the workers &

slaves did not. The point I am trying to make is that we have a

basic flaw in our system, which gives every totally loyal idiot an

equal vote. Very few voters understand what is happening with

the health bill. The Bill will go through, because Kevin Rudd is

talking to each Premier, in camera, & buying them off, one by one,

with borrowed money that our grandchildren will have to repay.

The only hope that common sense has is that Western Australia

will subconciously, not want to go along with anything that gives

more power to the Commonwealth, & potentially gives the death

knoll to State Governments, is because Colin Barnett is very aware

that his State of less than 1/8th of the population, is bringing in

roughly 1/2 of Australia's income!!!! The people of Western

Australia are just waiting for the right leader to emerge to lead them

to leave the Commonwealth & become one of the wealthiest

countries in the World.

BTW Gizmo, I don't think that even Rudd would have the

audacios arrogance to put forward a proposal for a referendum

with a Federal election 6 or 7 months away

Well, it looks like Kevin Rudd has done it again. We now know that

he has predictably bought all the States except Colin Barnett's West.,

Australia. He is a hero once again. BUT, because the deal involves

the GST, it cannot happen unless ALL States agree, unless he changes

the Federal GST Legislation. The new Legislation will take months

to prepare at an astronomical cost, & will be forced through the Lower

House then rejected by the Upper House. Back to square one, with

the Federation Election looming & everybody has totally forgotten

about the carbon trading & Chinese batt fiascos.

Plato is accepted as being the founder of the 2nd most important

principle of Democracy; one person, one vote. Every person in the

developed World believes this, BUT it is a lie !!! Under Plato, the

well born, the land owners & the business people were all informed

about politics & had a vote.



BS

BUT, because the deal involves the GST, it cannot happen unless ALL States agree,



Innes the way I read it (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the States are given their full GST who then contribute 30% of into a fund to which the Feds add their percentage. Each States health managers draw from this fund.



If WA dont want to be in it then they will still be paid their GST and wont contribute to the fund.



To pay for the Billion$ Rudd has thrown about getting the Premiers to agree I think increasing the GST to 12.5% is a realistic option.

Tamwin I am not absolutely certain, but I believe that, as the GST is a

Federal Act, there can't be a discenting State. I think it is all in, or none

in. I believe that their are 2 ways for Rudd to get his outcome now. He

can either change the GST Act so that West Australia is then left out of

the Health Bill or have a referandum with the Federal Election. I believe

that neither options will be successful, BUT it will cloud the populace

thinking on the fiascos until the Election & give Rudd a myriad of

oportunities to blame Abbott for the failure of the Health Bill.

BTW, nobody has been given the full details of the Bill, but it seems

that the Federal fund will recompence the individual Hospitals on the

basis of a set fee per procedure. Human nature, being what it is, I can

forsee a lot of operations on ingrown toenail & a major increase in

waiting time for pensioners needing major operations like hip

replacements etc.

BTW again, I believe that we all learn from intelligent debate, but

would it be possible to lift the applied intellect to a little bit higher

than "BS" If you are better informed than the History Books fwed,

please tell us uneducated illiterate indivuals, which part of the

recorded history is BS.

Well innes, unless there are several Platos and unless you are talking about one I don't know about, I may be mistaken.

I know that with your superior knowledge of all things pertaining to history (and most other things) that I am most likely wrong, but Plato (born about 423 BC), was a Greek philosopher, mathematician and most likely a teacher.

KFC said "Governments should be more accountable to the people they represent and I cant see why we should not have PAGES of referendum questions at each election". Oh how I wish it were true, then they could really find out what we are thinking.



How dare they change the goal posts without our input, it's total arrogance.

I believe that their are 2 ways for Rudd to get his outcome now. He can either change the GST Act so that West Australia is then left out of the Health Bill or have a referendum with the Federal Election. I believe that neither options will be successful, BUT it will cloud the populace thinking on the fiascos until the Election & give Rudd a myriad of opportunities to blame Abbott for the failure of the Health Bill.



Innes I thought nothing could be changed concerning the GST without all the States agreeing?



I dont see how Rudd can blame Abbott if this Health proposal falls over when the sticking point has been WA Premier Colin Barnett.



BTW, nobody has been given the full details of the Bill, but it seems that the Federal fund will recompense the individual Hospitals on the basis of a set fee per procedure.



What bothers me about this is the possibility of hospitals--



Only doing operations that attract a higher recompense,



Patients being sent home sooner, adding to their turnover and funds



Production-line operations to amass more funding



I believe (as with nearly all Rudd's policies) there is an awful lot of finer detail to be sorted out before they release it, so we dont have another Insulation Debacle that has now been scrapped after BILLION$ of waste

Well said fwed, so what did I state that was BS? You had no

reason to be an unmitigated smart ass !!! When you were looking

up Plato, in order to get his questionable DOB, you could have

looked a tiny bit further & discovered that he was famous for

many of his writings on law etc, but most famous for his ten

manuscripts called the Republic & written in ancient Greek in

either 360 or 380BC & interpreted by the scholar Benjamen Jowett

You don't have to have superior knowledge to know this. It is one

of the first things you study in Political Science 101.

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