ALP attacks LNP over pushing Age Pension age

 

It may be fairly common knowledge that Australians aren't happy about the Age Pension age being pushed to 70. And yet, according to the Australian Labor Party (ALP), that's exactly what the Coalition plan to do.

If the LNP has its way, all Australians born after 1 January 1966 will have to wait until they are 70 before being eligible for the Age Pension.

The ALP has started an online petition for those who don't agree with the hike to sign – to send a message to the LNP that Aussies won;t be happy being the country with the oldest pension age in the world. 

Regardless of your party preference, what do you think about the Age Pension age being pushed to 70? 

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20 comments

Believe the aged pension should be 65 years for men and 'means tested' for women over 60...

Saw a really insightful 'Insight' program on SBS a few weeks ago revealing that one of the fastest growing homelessness demographics in Australia is elderly women many of whom have very limited if any superannuation funds as well as next to no chance of finding employment - Due mainly to the fact that many of these women have had sporadic adult employment history due to bearing the brunt of child-raising and other familial responsibilities that kept them out of the work force if not sporadically then completely  over the years - with casual and part-time work their only options which is not conducive to increasing retirement funds ..

These women are 'the falling through the safety net' generation with many having left school at 15, raised families, have never had the opportunity to retrain for work or tertiary education, but in elderly middle age (say between 55 and 65) are expected to compete in a work force they are completely untrained for, with the jobs they could do as young women vanishing ..Ie.Technological Revolution...And with unskilled physical work ie labouring jobs being given to younger more physically able people...

Men in many years of labouring work should not be expected to do this physically demanding work beyond 65 .

Shetso1....It should be 60  for those that can no longer work. Those that want to work, let them work till they want to. It should not be made compulsory.

The only people that definitely are living longer are our politicians NOT ordinary tax paying workers. Their lifespans are going to be shortened in an insecure work climate, that provides no security. Constant job changes eat away super and many employers are not paying it.

It's sad that our dear Prime Minister wants to increase it to 70 when he and his party members hide their weallth legally to avoid paying taxes but will retire early without being means tested. Mr Hockey is a great example. Tax payers are paying for his pension whilst living in American and earning a huge income.

The focus should be on reducing the pensions of our politicians. They all are bleeding Australia dry.

 

Unfortunately, despite the 'rapid advances' in the past several decades (about forty years by now) women in general have long either held the home front and/or held lower paying positions (not going to argue the same old over pay for job) - and thus many such find they have little to nothing when it comes to the 'afternoon years' - ESPECIALLY if they have followed the diktats of The Sisterhood and trashed their relationship life.

'Liberation' for many women has become a new form of slavery to the need for a 'career' (read JOB in most cases),  the 'need' to 'go it alone and have everything' (LMAO), and meantime still fulfil the ages-old responsibilities.

Politicians of all flavours have done nothing to really help women - but they've sure guaranteed, through their promotion of 'women's rights' and such, managed to destroy many families and many men AND women, promoting them to the lowest income and net worth level in the land.

.. and politician perks are something like twelve times their salary - and many of these go on for life, unlike the peasants, who must make do with whatever they've got or can earn in a crashing job market.

To even get the last few casual/seasonl jobs I held I had to withhold information on heart surgery rather than jeopardise my chances... that's how bad it is for the many.

Agree Shetso, although I am not sure about the means test part, women might live longer than men, but with nothing to live on are they better off, obviously there are exceptions, but generally women are worse off until their husbands drop off the tree, then things might be too late to enjoy the benefits.

How can you tell an election is imminent?  The media starts its right wing propaganda and the issue keep coming.

I watched 7 News last night.  Blatant advertising for the NSW State government and looks like 7 is going to push the coalition state government back into office.

Whilst I agree with Labor on the pension age issue I would like to see ALL political advertising stop and media bosses prosecuted if they run blatant propaganda.  There is a reason why coalition governments have been elected for 16 years out of the last 20 and it has nothing to do with who is the better government but rather everything to do with which party is being promotoed by the owners of the big media outlets.  That's why they seek to close down the ABC.  Can't have even one dissenting voice which tells the truth can we.

Yes, I've noticed Gladys out glad-handing everyone and trying to show a smiling face to the never-ending farce of 'privatisation' and government mis-allocation of funding and such, let alone the total farce of not even being able to order train carriages that fit the network.... from Offshore as usual without thought for the total loss of billions to THIS economy.

Then we have the cost of petrol at a time when a barrel of crude is half the cost it was four years ago...

Please explain?  Somebody... anybody???

MICK....Australia needs to stop measuring the economy on how well the rich are doing.

Fair comment jackie.  Unfortunately when rich interests own and/or control the media we get the political propaganda I mentioned above.  The rich and their businesses pay electoral donations to their (right wing) parties as well as run blatant media propaganda campaigns.  The they get the payoff when their government is re-elected.  Hence TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH as well as COPANY TAX CUTS...which also benefit the rich.

We are in a class war and as you correctly say how well the rich are doing is all that seems to matter with a smattering of other news so that the media can claim they are not biased.  The acid test is THIS GOVERMENT is now trying to kill off the ABC and then sell it off.......probably to the Murdoch propaganda machine.  After that guess what!!!

Here be the good oil:-

https://www.smh.com.au/national/abc-is-right-wing-study-20090902-f83m.html

All this nonsense about the 'bias' of the ABC is just a smokescreen to try to de-ball it and remove any genuinely independent media.  Herr Goebbels would be proud...

Yes TREBOR.  The ABC tells the truth about the lying right and this is unacceptable.  The right demands 100% propaganda so that opposition parties are NEVER elected.  If that is not the rich at work and corrupting democracy then I don't know what is.

Believe not one word from Turnbull who last night claimed "we are not selling the ABC".  They are.  If voted in again the ABC is dead due to no funding and then flogged off under the guise of not performing well enough.  Enter the Murdoch crowd.  Democracy gone!

Hahahahha

great to see the labor supporters turn up to back their lying party 

"Lying" describes you and the current government Raphael.  A man without a conscience.  The last laugh will be on you when your employer betrays you as this government will do when it is ready.

Not my party - anyone who can read and interpret words knows I lambast Labor at least as much as I do the LNP.

Agree wth some points made Jackie and think I heard on 'Insiders' or 'The Drum' recently that these slimeball politicians from both sides and all over have had a total of a 6% wage increase over the past couple of years or some such...seeing no wage increase for the working poor or Newstart recipients..

Also that less than 50% of the Oz population is now in secure full time employment and they expect people to be in work or find work until they're 70!!  Where will the jobs come from????

Surely this is a recipe for social disharmony and unrest making the gap between the haves and have nots even larger...

Shetso1...Don't forget, our dear Prime Minister is giving himself a $10,000 pay rise on July 1st while he will be cutting back further on penalty rates for ordinary workers in unsecure work. It sickens me that this greedy selfish man expects them to pay for his pay increase. 

I agree Shetso1. 

Women who are now in their 70's (me) often left permanent work to have children and raise them.  If you had super in those permanent jobs (not all even had that), you were able to claim it when you left.  So of course we did, for general lifestyle things. It was rarely a huge amount.

When we returned to the workforce, casual work was the norm for an awful lot of us. That's if we could even find a job after years of being out of the loop while raising small children.  It was a pretty competitive market.

There was no superannuation provided in those casual jobs for many years but we didn't worry too much. Most of us had husbands who worked right through those child rearing years, with superannuation accumulating nicely, retirement was still a long way off and our husbands would provide for us, wouldn't they?  They were the fathers of our children.

Well, it didn't always work out that way.  Some of us were widowed.  Some of us were divorced.  Some of us remarried, but with woman outnumbering men to the tune of about 8 to 1, many more were left to fend for themselves. 

Most of us would be out of the workforce again long before we reached retirement age and like Shetso1 said, competing with younger people for jobs we weren't likely to get.

So it doesn't surprise me that a large number of old women are now homeless.

I'm one of the lucky ones.  I have a partner who has provided for me, but there but for the grace of God, go I.  I recently worked out that I worked for more than 30 years in total and came out of that with the grand total of $5000 in superannuation.

 

 

 

Darn sure you've worked your entire adult life  Leonie and just because invisible unpaid massively complex labour intensive work like raising kids, looking after elderly parents, unpaid childcare of grandkids etc. etc. is usually barely acknowledged and done mainly by women it's at the coal face of what makes the world go round..

.So just know Leonie  you probably worked your entire adult life but have only been paid for 30 years if it..

Spot on, Leonie - I've long said to many detractors of Pension as a right that those fine women in my family who were SAHMs had every right to it for their solid work - which in my eyes resulted in a far better community than the one we now 'enjoy'.

Once upon a time (in the mist-shrouded times of the Mythical Land of Oz) MUM would have been walking an eleven year old girl to school, rather than some parasite grabbing her at knife point and raping her etc for five hours (they caught the scumbag - I understand he's resisting arrest as we speak)....

Jeez - we (the ex and I) even travel an hour or more each way sometimes to ensure that a 10 year old gets to school safely (grandparents duty)., but my point is that at one time there were escorts for kids to school and a neighbourhood 'village' in which every house had an observer, so no real nasty stuff could easily occur.

Now a kid needs a squadron of P-51s to escort to target and back.....

Oh - and BTW - I had no mother, and no real father, and precious little to go to school with, including shoes..... on the other hand most of my extended family had those things and thus I am fully aware of the difference that makes.  It sounds almost trite, but the Army gave me my first good pair of shoes when I was just short of 17, and they also paid me $10 a week.... more than double what I could get outside, and I was in the A class at school and completed final year at age under 16.

Not easy to do, but I'm really a humble and self-effacing person... quiet but sociable.

As a person who had to dump a good job at 57 and quite suddenly retire for health reasons, it seems to me quite a stupid idea to raise the pension age to 70.

Disability pension was not as good as the age pension and I don't expect that to change.

Stats that say we are living longer, do not mean we will be fit for work longer. Much less with the obesity epidemic that is impacting the fitness of children.

Charlie...Those that are living longer is because of medication and surgeries that are becoming less affordable for those that are working in insecure jobs and a Centrelink system that makes the DSP impossible for most sick citizens.

Many Australians over the age of 60 are left to rot on NoStartAllowance, they aren't entitled to the DSP and can't get work. Not many will reach 70 let alone get a job.

It's sad that Australia relies on China for everything and Australians will pay the price for it.

Labor holds no high ground on this issue since the Gillard salad days of pushing the pension age for the peasants (but not for herself etc) out to 67 - an age where many are suffering the long term affects of doing a real job and not just sitting on their arse all day pretending to run the nation.

If Labor came out and said it would return the Pension age to 65, they might have some standing in this discussion - but as it stands they are just a smaller vulture on the still warm carcasse of this nation they and their mates in The Tag Team (both Labor and LNP are the Tag Team - one gets in and hammers us, then slaps hands to let the other into the ring to hammer us again in a different way) have brought low with several decades of senseless and ideologically driven 'policy', driven almost exclusively by the twin evils of special interest groups and self-interest.

You all know by now my views on a Universal Retirement Packaging Scheme with nor opportunities for rorting and no opportunities for politicians and their mates to get their grubby hands on it.

Oh - BTW - Happy Birthday to me - I plan to be a curmudgeon all day and say it like it is.... and how it should be said.... full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes...

Trebor...I agree  the Lib/Lab land have pissed in each others pockets for decades. Gillard  has taken over Kennett's position at Beyond Blue...How ironic....Someone advised me Beyond Blue is just an information bureau that advises ill people to call 000 or other numbers which they already know.

Happy Birthday! TREBOR...cheers

Make them gove the Welfare Fund back. With the money and earnings from 1978.

Not so hard surely.

Yes - starting with their theft of the Futures Fund as a good start on a Universal Retirement Scheme's funding...  the Trebor Scheme would pay its fair taxes here - those taxes SHOULD  go back into the economy for the benefit of all australians, who will thus have more to contribute to the Fund* - after deductions and running costs etc, the real taxes for any group are not that onerous... NONE pays 30% on their gross income like Jo and Joe Bloggs do and only on their estimated profit for the year, then that is adjusted on tax return time and most such get some back anyway.

 

*all we need to do here is control politicians and their profligacy to selves and cronies and force them to do their (gasps for buzz word) CORE job ... nobody can convince me that these people can be so stupid and naive as to be swayed ONLY by those who get a chance to 'lobby' them or pay for a hearing via donations.... surely they have some connection with the real world....

TREBOR  -  write to Shorten and suggest he makes this an election issue.  It should go well for Labor.

TREBOR  -  write to Shorten and suggest he makes this an election issue.  It should go well for Labor.

 

Raining today and snow to the west of here - cold as - shower and off to club for a beer for birthday....

 

Good idea, Mick.

If this is all that Labor can do to attack the government then Australia must be travelling OK. What about the power crisis, education, health and topics that matter? Why isn't Shorten et al going hell for leather on these issues?

Slightly off topic but I fear that the left is running Australia already. My reasoning is that we desperately need some new coal fired power stations to provide base line electricity to support those times when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing or blowing too fast. The Liberal Coalition governments won't build them because the vocal minority don't want them. The weekend threw Shorten a lifeline when some in the Liberal Party wanted to privatise the ABC but were overruled. I read in today's newspaper that there is already a comment stating that the Liberals are closing the ABC.

What do these both have in common? They annoy the left who will scream blue murder if either were to come to pass. The Liberal Coalition needs to grow a pair and stand up to the left because regardless of what is legislated to appease the left (or not legislated) the Liberal Coalition will never get votes from them. We need a government which will legislate for Australians, not to cower and hide from the problems that beset us.

OG  -  that sounds a lot like propaganda to me.  Selective hearing?

I'm sure Labor will be into it when the time comes.  At least I hope so for the country's sake.

New coal fired power stations?  You can't be serious.  Battery storage is coming and renewable energy is already flooding the grid....which the government refuses to fix because it is a coal controlled subsidiary.

If everybody had a 20 kw system on their roof and a still not developed 50 kW battery (coming) then WHY would we need a wholse pile of obsolete coal generating facilities?  And WHY does this government not claw back OUR GAS which the Howard government allowed to go to offshore investors?

Your post raises a lot more questions than it answers OM.  It is election time and you have joined the coalition bandwagon.  I wonder why.

Not cynical at all, OM - in line with reality. 

Thanks MICK, I realise battery storage is coming but the question is when will it get here.  Not everybody can afford a 20Kw system on their roof and I wonder what is needed for a block of units which also draws electricity. A power station has a working life of about 40 years if we go on past history and maybe by then the mythical battery storage and roofs full of solar panels will be able to cope. I wonder how many batteries and solar panels are needed to maintain the aluminium smelter near Newcastle that has had problems only last week with insufficient power and had had to stop manufacturing on three occasions. Will we lose another manufacturer slaughtered on the altar of the Greens ideology?

Sounds like a lot of negatives which ignore reality.  I keep getting emails for systems around 10 kW which cost under $5,000. Give it another 10 years when the industry matures more and the cost will be nix.  Batteries may take a bit longer unless the new carbon technology conquers the barriers.  Then we have unlimited storage.  Game over unless coalition governments then legislate against solar.  Don't believe they would not try it on.

In the medium term our coal owned government needs to enforce laws so that the gas companies have to provide Australia with OUR gas under terms set down by the government.  THAT MEANS CHEAP GAS, not over inflated prices.

Don't what is "mythical" about battery storage.  Got an electric drill or other appliance.  Never had that 20 years ago.  The real challenge is not the battery but producing it in sufficient size.

I also read a report last week where the guy who kicked off the PV industry in Australia has actually produced a cell with 80% efficiency.  That is a real game changer.  When the batteries come, AS THEY WILL, the coal industry can shut the mines.

The lasy bit it total misinformation.  Lose another manufacturer because of the Greens?  Laughable.  Talk to Johnny Howard and ask him WHY his bunch of misfits let the Gorgon LNG deposit be sold to foreigners?  Third largest gas deposit on the planet.  "We have no gas" is what your fracker mates are now crying.

Whilst I do not support any of the major parties give me a toxic Greens any day in preference to the big business owned government which is now selling our prime farmin gland to mujltinationals and foreign governments.

You are simply posting government propaganda OM.  It must be election time.  I have my doubts if you are a real Australian OM as selling your soul to the current dictatorship is the ultimate perversion.  Shameful.

You see MICK, this is the area into which you stray that annoys me. You have made a statement that a coalition government will legisdlate against solar which has never been said or even hinted at. Then you find a person (unnamed) who has made an announcement in support of his business (unproven) that will change the world.

Ignoring the political bit about who did what to whom, I find it offensive that you question my loyalty to a nation whose uniform I was proud to wear during the Vietnam era. Please MICK, stick to statements of fact where proof can be shown and you never know, we may get to enjoy a beer together.

OM  -  we both know that if it could it would!

You are playing the devil's advocate.  The person's name is Professor Green and he has been with the University of NSW for decades.  You go do the homework rather than demand the non ending demands of proof.

Change the world?  That's what renewable energy is doing.  AT the same time you and others seek to live in the past and destroy this planet.  The ultimate betrayal of every living organism which resides here.

When I read your coal propaganda I am offended and I will question anybody who wants to ruin what we all call home and which nourishes us.

Congratulations on being conned into going to Vietnam.  My marble did not come out so was a lucky person. Since then I have come to realise that wars are mostly fought for financial and territorial gain.  We are just the pawns.  Took me many years to see the system we live in and the right irks me in its utter contemp for human life and its belief that there are masters and servants....the latter being 99.9% of us all.

Glad to have a beer one day.  We do have some commentary in common but I cannot believe some of the above today.  Sounds like the Liberal Party manual which Raphael and Geezer preach from.  Surely you are intellignet enough to perceive this.  Definitely time for a drink before I pop a cork.

Come on Mick are you really fair dinkum, your favourite word in use again, you have been saying for a long time you don't support either of the main parties, yet you are always the first to promote labor propaganda and their scare tactics, and continue to be offensive to those that disagree with your point of view, I know you always put enough true facts in your comments to convince people that you are unbiased in your comments, but you don't have to look far to read your true intentions, the comment re the Vietnam war was typical of the left wing and it was those people that booed our service men when they returned, not that I am making any accusation against you, but you have to wonder.

I did not say that I went to Vietnam MICK although my unit supported those who did. Again, you use a bit of information and embellish it to suit.

 

I think he's waiting - Oppositions do that, playing the hand close to the chest until an election is very close or even announced.

Mick is right - we should be pressuring Labor right now on all those issues.

I doubt the LNP legislate for Australians - more for their own personal special interest groups, the same as Labor do.  The difference between them is the thickness of a cigarette paper in actions if not strictly policy directions (as stated but not necessarily upheld).

We all know that if given the keys to the kingdom, Labor's first priority will be to enforce equality by numbers for its special interest groups.... everything else is secondary including the costs of doing so and the genuine well-being of the nation as a whole.

We need neither Labor nor LNP - but a real government with balls to do what is needed for ALL.

You are too generous Bob, it's not just the Coalition and Labor which legislates for themselves, all politicians are only there for number one and we only hear what we want to hear come election time. Too cynical?

Dang - posted this on the wrong bit - no - not cynical at all, OM - just in line with reality.  Politics is overpaid and lives off the fattest in the land - OUR endless purse that just keeps on giving.

Does this include politicians who can I believe retire at 60??  Does this mean with the money they save they will pay unpaid carers the money they owe them??

Nah - carers are the lowest in the land, even when they have responsibilities to such an extent they can't gold-plate their own retirement at the same time.

Work in the construction industry all your working life. Your body takes a hammering . Once you reach 50 . The body is nearly stuffed. 

A distant pr1ck relative is doing a job right now on a house - he's 74 and got a few issues including enlarged prostate.... he's helping his son out after his son took on the job ..... and some just don't seem to realise that years in the trades has a lot of effects on the old body.

Imagine a brickie working at 70 - some do... or a tiler with all that kneeling.. yep - some do.

I worked for a company for 18 years and was quite willing to work until I was 70. However at 67 it was 'suggested' I leave with a fairly ordinary pay-out. At the time I could salary sacrifice up to $35k per year then pay myself back so working until 70 presented a bonus. I was pressured to leave so sought a solicitor. The advice was that I would probably win but the cost of legals would negate any compensation. I left knowing there was no way I would be re-employed in the same type of work, which I was quite capable of maintaining until I was 70. So even tho' you may want to work until you are 70 if that is the way the government wants to go, there is no guarantee that you will be allowed to.

There's the reality of 'working until 70'.  So they deny you the pension and put you on the BS roundabout to get a job which does not exist.  Pretty obvious the GAME is to keep older Australians off a pension until they die and go away.

Vote accordingly or live with the consequense. 

 

 

.. and to force older Australians forced to retire to live off their own assets first - all part of the same game with the same end in view.

Me cynical?  Nevah!!

Revert the Pension age to 65, and I have to agree - assets tested for women at 60 due to lack of real opportunity for many.  You pick something new up in discussion every day - until the Usual Suspects arrive and start slanging and slagging again.... then it's gutter talk...

This is a part of the 'wealth transfer to the rich' manual.  If you consume everything you own then the assets pass to the top end of town.  Game over.  The intended era of slavery has then arrived.

 

Absolutely, Mick - the average peasant can't buy up your assets - only the fattest cats can do that, so this is a very insidious process of wealth transfer to the rich who will soon be feudal lords of all they survey and society will go backwards many hundreds of years....... and then only the rich can pass down any inheritance, thus further cementing their place at 'the top' for perpetuity and deriving the kind of lifestyle forever that the New Chinese Mandarins are enjoying now in their 'equal socialist paradise' ... no wonder countless revolutions have taken place over the exact same thing......

We have some here who trumpet that the 'undeserving and wastrel peasants' have no right to pass anything down to their descendants and that people shouldbe forced to burn down all their assets before getting their rightful Pension ..... I'm waiting for them to arrive.. the Usual Suspects.....

Probably at HQ in the scrum to work out what the anti Labor and anti Union BS of the day should be. Must be due for a rerun of pink batts, school halls and debt by now.  Oh....can't talk about debt because somebody might have noticed their employer has more than doubled the previous lot's debt.  A taboo subject methinks.

The round of right wing lies and BS never ceases to amaze me.  Worse still the mindless masses swallow it a 'news' because they fail to understand they are been roasted slowly.  When serfdom arrives they will know.  Game over then.

Happy Birthday Trebor.  21? :)  And thanks for keeping us all entertained & enlightened with your views.  You put up a good read each day.

69 going on 19-29, I think.. the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.... (argh).... had The Grand-Kids Trio last night on the phone singing Happy Birthday...

The “reality” is..more people are living longer..more are healthier because of the excellent health care we get in this country. Age in my opinion.. has very little to do with “retirement” as such. The question is: does your health allow it? Some are in jobs which they cannot do after a certain age..these people cannot be expected to carry on under such circumstances..others however.. choose to retire when they become eligible for the Age Pension. Very soon it might prove unsustainable. My view is, if people can work and are able to past retirement age..then I can see only good outcomes. Certainly if one can support oneself then it goes without saying you can retire anytime it pleases you..

My own personal opinion is..the longer you work, the more tuned-in and active you are. I’ve known too many people who have retired and died soon after or simply didn’t know what to do with themselves. I think it’s very important to make sure one has  an established, realistic view of what you plan to do post-retirement.

So we have a graduated class system for Pensioners? 

Group A:- those healthy enough to continue... no pension.

Group B:-  Those healthy enough to partially continue ... part pension.

Group C:- Those insufficiently healthy to continue.... full pension.

Groupd D:-  Those in any category who may wish to continue .... subject to calculation.....

Sounds ominous to me.... and I hammered Howard over DSP and non-receipt of the Utilities Allowance when he visited my electorate, and I also published the Reality Cheque over the same issue.  There are ample reasons for a single arbitrary Pension date... and  longer life is not one of them....

I think I prefer my scheme.

Happy Birthday to you Trebor!

Your scheme sounds fine too..but there does not have to be universal agreement :)

Did you know?

The happiest and longest living people in the world like those in Okinawa Japan, don't even have a word for retirement. Instead, they have a word called  “ikigai”   which roughly translates as 'the reason you get up in the morning.'

(Source: Buettner, Blue Zone Studies)


Here's the first one TREBOR.  Advocating being paid a cup of rice, destitution and being happy.  Maybe start with the PM who should be extremely happy if he gives all of his considerable fortune to charity.  Not me?  Only for average citizens?  Thought so.

I'll go with the Okinawans.....

Well - if Labrador truly wants to 'equalise' everybody in a socialist sense, many of those at the top of the Party Of Equality For All will need to down-size their personal wealth........ maybe Mal and Billy could share a cup and a half of rice....

I've said before - this kind of thing is what lead to the catastrophe of Cambodians being sent out to till rice fields regardless of personal health etc... ending in the devastation of half of their population by variour means in The Kingdom Of The Cruel Children - who were running the show.  15 year olds with the power of life and death over rice paddy serfs and slaves....

My point is - force people to be equal by your lights without regard for the sufferings of the individual and focus on enriching those with the loudest voices in your ear - and you've lost the game.... that is why I oppose Labor in its present sheep's clothing.

So how come the politicians who sit on their bums all day doing sweet fanny adams can retire early?

Because the dumb general public who is conned by None News and the other big media outlets are told a whole pile of twaddle and then do as they are told.  Why do you think Turnbull went on a tirade the night of the election results?  Some of us did not do as we were told!

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